Openly Gay Catholic Clergyman Reviews Pope Francis' Appeal For LGBTQ Protections
Rachel Martin talks with Fr. Bryan Massingale, clergyman and professor at Fordham College, regarding Pope Francis' statements regarding the civil liberties of LGBTQ people to civil unions.
Today, a documentary appeared that reveals Pope Francis recommending civil unions for same-sex pairs. Currently, his remarks in this film do not indicate an adjustment in Catholic teaching, but they do signify a significant modification in just how any kind of pope has discussed this concern. So what's this going to indicate for the LGBTQ area of Catholics? I asked Father Bryan Massingale what he assumed when he first listened to the pope's comments. He's a honestly gay Catholic clergyman.
BRYAN MASSINGALE: I was in fact very ecstatic as well as also pleased, I need to say. I was really, extremely pleased to listen to the pope make this kind of endorsement of civil unions for gay and also lesbian individuals. The pope is basing his call for civil recognition and also security in the right to a family members. And he states that gay as well as lesbian persons have the right to a family members and also a right to a family life. And also this is very important in the Catholic globe due to the fact that our team believe that the right to a household is an essential human right that individuals have by virtue of being human. And so in this call for the civil acknowledgment as well as defense of gay civil unions, it's truly an affirmation of the mankind of gay as well as lesbian persons - that he's stating that because gay as well as lesbian individuals are human beings, that culture, that the state, that governments have an obligation and a responsibility to protect their basic human rights.
MARTIN: Does expanding the right to a civil union as well as recognizing that LGBTQ individuals should be enabled to have a partner in their life through a civil union as well as a household - does that mean children?
MASSINGALE: Absolutely. Absolutely. Pope Francis first made this sort of affirmation when he was the archbishop of Buenos Aires prior to he ended up being pope. Now, it might appear to be a semantic distinction, however I believe what the pope is claiming is that he is not opposed to the lawful recognition of domesticity as well as the right for gay as well as lesbian individuals to raise and have households.
MARTIN: As a gay Catholic on your own, I suggest, as a guy of faith, as a Catholic, is it in some way much less significant, I would certainly picture, a civil union than having the ability to be married in the church?
MASSINGALE: Yes. I directly - and I understand several others, gay and lesbian individuals and also those that are allies as well as that like us - would certainly want the church to be able to eventually identify the caring dedications of LGBTQ persons in the rite of marital relationship. And, in fact, those sort of conversations are going on right now in the church. As a matter of fact, the German-speaking diocesans, the bishops of Germany as well as Austria, go to the leading edge of the type of discussion around, exactly how can the church expand a true blessing or a recognition to same-sex committed unions? I see this as a necessary action in the development of the church's thinking on same-sex issues. Some individuals would state, well, this is, like, also little too late. However I assume that we need as Catholics to step back and also state the Catholic Church is an international church with a worldwide reach. And in several places worldwide, LGBTQ individuals have much less legal acknowledgment and also security of their civil liberties than they do in the United States. We have to keep in mind that homosexuality is still criminalized in over 70 nations. And also in five or six countries, it's a behavior that's culpable by death. And what the pope is finishing with this type of statement - he's clearly putting the Catholic Church on the side of against the criminalization of actions as well as in favor of protecting the human self-respect of gay and lesbian individuals.
MARTIN: But help me recognize this because it's my understanding that the Catholic Church still thinks about homosexuality to be a transgression, not something that should be encouraged in a lifestyle. You understand, there's the concept of mercy. If you think of your sexual preference as as something you require to ask mercy for, that's alright. However to live in \"sin,\" quote, unquote - that that's not appropriate in the church's eyes.
MASSINGALE: He has not altered church training concerning actions or conduct. He still would see that as being morally bothersome. Nonetheless, he goes back to his concern, do we focus on actions, or do we concentrate on individuals? And also also wicked persons still have human rights that we're all called to respect and to secure.
MASSINGALE: I assume for queer Catholics, it suggests hope that the church can alter. It can expand. It can develop. I believe it's likewise an indication of hope that especially in position where LGBTQ individuals are extra proactively maltreated, this signifies hope that that sort of persecution can not be fixed up with the Christian faith. In this country, there have actually been efforts to state that Catholics, Catholic institutions can't be involved or in the fostering - or permitting gay and also lesbian moms and dads to embrace kids. And I think that this truly offers a different lens for that kind of conversation that goes on in the Catholic Church because we're basically claiming that, no, gay and also lesbian individuals can, you know, have a right to a family members. They can be parents. I think this hires Catholics in the United States to have a various strategy when we talk about spiritual liberty as well as the rights of Catholic establishments and whether Catholic organizations can keep that same-sex pairs can not be adoptive parents. So I believe that's an extremely concrete impact that the pope's statements will have below in the USA.
MARTIN: Papa Brian Massingale - he's a theologian at Fordham College. Thanks a lot for your time.
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